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Learn about it before you use it FFS


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#1 Shaun D

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 03:45 PM

Tonight i went to a job that had my doing these ones.

 

picard_shenanigans_by_bthauronite.jpg

 

I just want to take a moment to remind everyone that before you buy that Quick-Clot, that fancy looking CA tourniquet or those amazing Israeli bandages that the difference between help and hinder is small and training helps to fix that. Side note...if i happen to turn up at your house and your first comment is "i know what im doing, i saw how to fix myself online" when its clear you do not...you get the BIG cannula because then you might just learn.

 

</RANT>

 

 


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#2 Nathaniel P

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 04:33 PM

My spidey-sense is telling me there is a story behind this one...

 

 

But seriously:

 

First aid certification, everyone. Get it.

 

It is a part of your EDC that you will not leave in the drawer at home, it does not need batteries, cell service, or resharpening. (Aside from a quick review every year or so)


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#3 Guest_Pete_*

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 05:14 PM

Oooooh... tell us a story, Uncle Shaun!

 

Please do correct me if I am mistaken, but aren't Quick-Clot, combat tourniquets, and Israeli bandages generally only for large traumatic injuries involving major blood vessels-- and kind of a last resort at that?  For instance, you wouldn't use a tourniquet if you'd cut your hand, but you might need one if you'd cut your hand off.  My first aid training was long enough ago that I've never worked with Quick-Clot, but I was always told that the incorrect use of tourniquets could cause damage that could further the injury, or even be worse than the injury itself.

 

...and by cannula, I'm guessing you're not referring to the nasal type.  The hospital at which I used to work, the trauma nurses would threaten unruly patients with Foley catheters.  That usually shut 'em up.

 

Nathaniel-- thanks for the reminder.  I need to get my first aid and CPR certs current.


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#4 M Travis Shelley

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 06:17 PM

This is the thread we need.  I went off on some of my "GO-Bag" fanatic friends who fill their cars with easily purchased bits of kit with no concept of how to actually employ them.


Semper Paratuse68bdee2-c306-4365-ba3d-d7d742098d83_zpsSic Semper Tyrannis


#5 Shaun D

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:37 AM

Oooooh... tell us a story, Uncle Shaun!

 

Please do correct me if I am mistaken, but aren't Quick-Clot, combat tourniquets, and Israeli bandages generally only for large traumatic injuries involving major blood vessels-- and kind of a last resort at that?  For instance, you wouldn't use a tourniquet if you'd cut your hand, but you might need one if you'd cut your hand off.  My first aid training was long enough ago that I've never worked with Quick-Clot, but I was always told that the incorrect use of tourniquets could cause damage that could further the injury, or even be worse than the injury itself.

 

Thats exactly correct, antihemorrhagic agents are next to useless but mostly pointless on anything less than a significant bleed. Combat tourniquets work in a similar fashion but will work for every kind of bleed, however knowing how they work and what they do to the body can allow a person to make a call on if they need one or not. Israeli bandages are pretty much a good combine and a tourniquet in one setup.

 

The patient had sliced his hand open with a saw, a significant cut but no tendon damage that we would determine...this was because the patients friend had applied both Quick-clot and a CAT. This made my job hard as i could not assess how bad the cut actually was so i was unable to inform the hospital on what team they should have ready to receive the patient. Adding to this the patients whole arm had gone numb which is a great sign that the CAT is doing its job, which is also a sign that the patient most likely now has compartment syndrome and will require another medical procedure to ensure they don't loose their entire arm. In frustration i asked said patients friend how long it had been on to which i got "umm...might be about an hour...might be longer, the bleeding didn't stop so i knew it was bad". Basic training on these things is pretty simple...wrap around limb tight, tighten bar until tight, lock bar, write time applied in space provided....so i asked why he didn't follow that last step i got the most amazing answer "the you tube video i watched said i didn't need to".

 

So its pretty simple folks, go and do a first aid course...it will teach you the basics. If your really interested in stepping up to some more advanced gear and life saving techniques, go and take some advanced courses...there are some great ones I've seen in the US (and Aus for that matter) that will allow you to knock the theory over in your own time and then spend a few days learning the hands on...if your not keen on doing that last part...well wait for someone who is to rock up.


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#6 Guest_Pete_*

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 10:33 AM

The next sound you hear is me screaming at the idiots through my computer.  If in your estimation, it's bad enough to use both Quick-Clot and a tourniquet, then it's probably a good idea to drop everything and get medical attention immediately instead of, oh, I dunno, WAITING AN HOUR BEFORE CALLING EMERGENCY SERVICES.

 

This is why I never keep things like this around, because of the human tendency to use the "heroic measures" for mundande crap.  Besides, if you really need to make a tourniquet, there are so many common things just laying around out of which you can make one.  Which is something you'd learn how to do if you take a first aid course.  Where they also tell you to write down the time that you apply the tourniquet.

 

I'd have to wonder if one of these geniuses got a scalp laceration, would the other apply a tourniquet?  :lol:


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#7 kwelsh

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 12:04 AM

It's has been a long time since I was certified. Where can I get CPR and first aid training?

#8 Shaun D

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 02:56 AM

Without knowing where you are i have no idea.

 

In Australia your best bet is getting in contact with your local St John Ambulance state training team who will be able to book you into a course with no problems. 


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#9 Guest_Pete_*

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 11:21 AM

It's has been a long time since I was certified. Where can I get CPR and first aid training?

I'm in midwestern USA.  In my experience, if your local fire department doesn't offer some sort of training, they'll at least be able to tell you where you can get it.  Many hospitals (especially the teaching hospitals) and community colleges offer first aid and CPR certification.  My certifications were the result of my having been a lifeguard years ago.


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#10 Stupendous Walrus

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 07:18 PM

Without knowing where you are i have no idea.
 
In Australia your best bet is getting in contact with your local St John Ambulance state training team who will be able to book you into a course with no problems.


Same for Canada. St. John is the gold standard. I believe Red Cross does training as well, which is most likely available everywhere.

Good rant Shaun, and excellent use of the best Star Trek captain there ever was. I hear you. I worked in a place that was dangerously unsafe due to poor practices and management and many times had to shout at people to stop performing "first aid" on one another without any shred of training. Can't imgaine it as a paramedic. Yeesh.
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#11 Andrea Lok

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 07:57 PM

I need to get certified.  Always meant to in university, but never really got the chance because of bad timing for classes and scheduling.

It's good also have it on your resume - 1st aid responder...:)


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#12 Stupendous Walrus

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 10:45 PM

I need to get certified.  Always meant to in university, but never really got the chance because of bad timing for classes and scheduling.

It's good also have it on your resume - 1st aid responder... :)

It's a MASSIVE plus on your resume. I would recommend St. John Ambulance as your first stop. I found their First Aid Class A-C/CPR courses to be superior, but that may just be a personal opinion. Very reasonable price as well. If you find it very interesting (as I did) you can then continue on with more certifications. Later in the year I'll be taking a 70 hour first aid/trauma course (as is required for a career I'm working on).



#13 Shaun D

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 10:17 PM

Its something i totally recommend. Its apple to oranges when we rock up to a job and find a trained and competent first aider already on scene vs an untrained bystander.

 

St John in Western Australia released this video to grab peoples attention to this fact

 

 

It ran for a week and two things happened...a 20% increase in people signing up for courses and a 100% increase in complaints to the advertising standards board. Apparently people found it a little confronting. But it drives home my point...whats the use in having a fancy $200+ FAK...if you have no idea how to use any of it correctly.


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#14 Jellybean0001

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Posted 15 August 2015 - 02:05 AM

It's has been a long time since I was certified. Where can I get CPR and first aid training?

contact your local St. John's

#15 John

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 11:42 AM

Software always wins over hardware...good job!



#16 JDU

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 03:35 PM

I'm a Range Safety Officer at my gun club so I carry CATs, QuickClot, Israeli Bandages, the whole shebang. I make sure I retrain every year (plus CPR) . My instructor was a medic in the sand box and you don't get much better experience than that.

 

Aside from the technical use of the item, I think retraining is invaluable for learning if new solutions have developed and if old ones are no longer in favor. Research is ongoing for trauma wounds.


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#17 WallyGator

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 06:46 AM

Back in the stone age of EMS, when I was a paramedic, we only had super glue and tourniquet to worry about. Had a biker who laid his motorcycle down. He had some massive road rash so what does his buddy do? You guessed  it - applied super glue to stop the bleeding. I just rolled my eyes but at least it stopped the bleeding. Now this guy not only the dirt and grit from the road to contend  with but the pain of a massive scrubbing at the hospital to look forward to. If any of you of you super glue yourself to something you don't want to be attached to, oil works to unstick you. When I worked in the ER, we would truck down to the cafeteria to get cooking or olive oil. I preferred olive oil as it made the patient smell like an Italian restaurant.

 

Hospitals, the Red Cross, fire and EMS squads are good sources of first aid and CPR training.



#18 Wolfhunter

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 02:51 PM

This entire thread reminds me when we had a solid afternoon to learn how to use torniquets back at the academy.

 

Teacher: "So you apply this ABOVE the closest joint to the injury and tighten it up nice and good".

 

*Student frantically waiving hand about*

 

Teacher: "Yes?"

 

Student: "If someone has a very bad cut to, let's say, the face or the back of the head, do you put it around the neck then to stop the bleeding?"

 

Teacher: "............"

Rest of class: "omfg..."


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