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Is Every Day Carry Anti-Gun?

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49 replies to this topic

#21 coldwater

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 05:06 AM

Are people who are anti-gun unwelcome in this "small corner" of this sight?

Actually, you are not welcome  When you come in making such a statement you're clearly close minded, have no interest in reasonable conversation, and your first post on this site was a straight line to the firearms topic where you immediately trolled members. We have seen this behavior before, possibly from you under another name.



#22 Gren

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:17 PM

Actually, you are not welcome  When you come in making such a statement you're clearly close minded, have no interest in reasonable conversation, and your first post on this site was a straight line to the firearms topic where you immediately trolled members. We have seen this behavior before, possibly from you under another name.

Sorry, didnt mean to troll.  I was only expressing my honest opinion.  Ill stay off the firearm forums from now on.



#23 coldwater

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:33 PM

Sorry, didnt mean to troll.  I was only expressing my honest opinion.  Ill stay off the firearm forums from now on.

Enter with an open mind, ask questions, engage in a civil conversation over why you have fears about trained law abiding citizens executing their constitutional rights, and you will always be welcome. Any one of us would be more than happy to talk to you. 



#24 Matt

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 06:13 PM

Are people who are anti-gun unwelcome in this "small corner" of this sight?

 

If their reason for coming to this part of the forum is to troll and stir up trouble, no, they're not welcome.

 

If they are not actually interested in learning about us, our reasons, and our firearms, I presume they wouldn't come here in the first place.

 

If they are curious and willing to be open minded, they are most certainly welcome.

 

Most people who consider themselves "anti-gun" simply haven't taken the time to learn about firearms, and base their opinion on the fear and lies promulgated by those with an anti-gun agenda. It's very very rare, in my experience, that an anti-gun person stays anti-gun after they learn about firearms, what it means to be a responsible firearm owner, and the philosophical basis for firearms as a means of self preservation.

 

It's pretty obvious that coldwater bristled at the apparent terseness of your first comment, and I don't blame him; firearm owners in general have become jaded with regard to people who start a conversation like you did. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, and suggesting that you engage us with questions and conversation - maybe we'll change your mind.


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#25 lambda lady

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 12:25 PM

Maybe they want to stay neutral on the topic. 



#26 coldwater

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 07:15 AM

Maybe they want to stay neutral on the topic. 

I suggest that someone entering a clearly posted firearms topic page and making a point of stating their "uncomfortable" with others EDC ing a firearm, they are not neutral on the topic by any stretch of the imagination. Most firearms owners I have known, including myself, very much welcome conversation with anyone with an open mind and a willingness to learn. There is no reason to engage anyone that steps in with a preconceived negative attitude  about guns and or their owners. You will never change their minds, and it will only result in ill will and argument.



#27 Ben

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 08:16 AM

I don't have a dog in this fight (I do not live in the US and can see both sides of the argument) but I would say that the closed minded and negative approach is equal on both sides of the spectrum. As the posts above show. Open minded conversation is welcome as long as you don't expect that we would ever change our minds. Come and talk to us with the specific goal of being converted or don't talk at all. 



#28 coldwater

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 12:26 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight (I do not live in the US and can see both sides of the argument) but I would say that the closed minded and negative approach is equal on both sides of the spectrum. As the posts above show. Open minded conversation is welcome as long as you don't expect that we would ever change our minds. Come and talk to us with the specific goal of being converted or don't talk at all. 

That's not really a valid argument. That's like saying I hate your wife, so I want you to listen to me on just why you should get rid of her. It's your wife, so why is my opinion on what you should do with her worth anything? Are you going to hear me out while I trash her? Or tell me to go to hell. The reasons we own a firearms are many. We pose no threat to anyone not trying to harm us. We follow the many thousands of onerous laws placed upon us, we have been vetted, finger printed, have photo ID's and are fully lawful and legal. I have absolutely no intention on giving up anything I enjoy that harms no one and is perfectly legal, so why should I enter into a conversation with anyone hell bent on denying my right to do so.  The topic is ours. When you come in, be an enthusiast, or enter with an open mind and willing to understand our mentality. 


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#29 Matt

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 05:54 PM

Very well said.



#30 Ben

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:58 AM

That's not really a valid argument. That's like saying I hate your wife, so I want you to listen to me on just why you should get rid of her. It's your wife, so why is my opinion on what you should do with her worth anything? Are you going to hear me out while I trash her? Or tell me to go to hell. The reasons we own a firearms are many. We pose no threat to anyone not trying to harm us. We follow the many thousands of onerous laws placed upon us, we have been vetted, finger printed, have photo ID's and are fully lawful and legal. I have absolutely no intention on giving up anything I enjoy that harms no one and is perfectly legal, so why should I enter into a conversation with anyone hell bent on denying my right to do so.  The topic is ours. When you come in, be an enthusiast, or enter with an open mind and willing to understand our mentality. 

 

The question was 'Is EDC Anti Gun'.

 

Possible answers:

 

1.Yes but I don't agree.

2.Yes and I do agree.

3.No and I'm happy about that.

4.No but I wish they were.

5. Yes/No but I don't have an opinion.

 

It has become obvious that only replies which fit into categories 1 or 3 are acceptable somehow because this is in the firearms section of the forum. Despite it being the logical place to put the thread. I think the question has to be to the moderators of the forum, is the 'firearm' section solely for pro US style EDC gun carry (of the nonrestrictive states style) discussion or is it open to differing viewpoints that a thread like this might create?



#31 Matt

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:08 PM

The question was 'Is EDC Anti Gun'.

 

Possible answers:

 

1.Yes but I don't agree.

2.Yes and I do agree.

3.No and I'm happy about that.

4.No but I wish they were.

5. Yes/No but I don't have an opinion.

 

It has become obvious that only replies which fit into categories 1 or 3 are acceptable somehow because this is in the firearms section of the forum. Despite it being the logical place to put the thread. I think the question has to be to the moderators of the forum, is the 'firearm' section solely for pro US style EDC gun carry (of the nonrestrictive states style) discussion or is it open to differing viewpoints that a thread like this might create?

 

I'm not sure the way you frame the discussion is fair.

 

To preface this: I don't claim to be a spokesperson for the whole forum, or the firearm community, but I do claim to be a reasonable and respectful individual. I believe the way that I have approached this discussion is fair and reasonable.

 

Yes, the question of the OP is somewhat binary, but the topic of EDC firearm carry has as many layers as any other topic. As you insinuate, there are many countries, and states in the US, which have varying degrees of legal firearm carry, and respectful discussion of the differences and their validity is perfectly welcome. Such discussion of general firearm EDC is a deviation from the topic of the OP of this thread, which is specifically about whether or not this site is itself anti-gun, or run by anti-gun folks, and thus might be better suited as its own thread.

 

I believe the specific question of the OP has been answered by prior posts, so I won't rehash it here.

 

If your concern is that this thread has deviated from the OP (which it has), please feel free to start another thread for us to have that discussion in.

 

I'll end with this: proactively starting a thread to discuss a topic is far better for the community and for that particular discussion than bringing it up in an unrelated thread; and if you see such a deviation of topic, proactively moving the discussion to its own thread is a good idea.. As with any topic, approaching the discussion in an obviously open-minded way will be far more likely to receive open and respectful responses.

 

Remember - as the person instigating (for lack of a better term), or continuing, the discussion, it is up to you to set the tone.



#32 Ben

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 05:32 AM

I'm not sure the way you frame the discussion is fair.

 

To preface this: I don't claim to be a spokesperson for the whole forum, or the firearm community, but I do claim to be a reasonable and respectful individual. I believe the way that I have approached this discussion is fair and reasonable.

 

Yes, the question of the OP is somewhat binary, but the topic of EDC firearm carry has as many layers as any other topic. As you insinuate, there are many countries, and states in the US, which have varying degrees of legal firearm carry, and respectful discussion of the differences and their validity is perfectly welcome. Such discussion of general firearm EDC is a deviation from the topic of the OP of this thread, which is specifically about whether or not this site is itself anti-gun, or run by anti-gun folks, and thus might be better suited as its own thread.

 

I believe the specific question of the OP has been answered by prior posts, so I won't rehash it here.

 

If your concern is that this thread has deviated from the OP (which it has), please feel free to start another thread for us to have that discussion in.

 

I'll end with this: proactively starting a thread to discuss a topic is far better for the community and for that particular discussion than bringing it up in an unrelated thread; and if you see such a deviation of topic, proactively moving the discussion to its own thread is a good idea.. As with any topic, approaching the discussion in an obviously open-minded way will be far more likely to receive open and respectful responses.

 

Remember - as the person instigating (for lack of a better term), or continuing, the discussion, it is up to you to set the tone.

Thing is, I'm not interested in a debate about firearms. I just did not think it was fair the way an open question about the nature of the website as  whole was turned into 'you're either with us or against us and if it's the latter, this is our section of the forum so get lost'. 



#33 International Man Of Mystery

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 02:00 PM

Whether people are FOR or AGAINST firearms is not really the point of this site (I hope). This site should just be about what people carry on an everyday basis. If people don't like it they're free to move on. Personally, I love to see what members carry/use. Whether it's a gun, knife, first aid kit or hot dog making machine - it's all interesting...



#34 coldwater

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 05:27 PM

Thing is, I'm not interested in a debate about firearms. I just did not think it was fair the way an open question about the nature of the website as  whole was turned into 'you're either with us or against us and if it's the latter, this is our section of the forum so get lost'. 

Not sure what you're getting at here, Ben. My response was to this post right here. --->>They obviously are not, though I wish they were.  It's unnerving to see so many posts with concealed firearms as EDC.<<--- This post was clearly defined as anti gun, and no reasonable person would see it as anything else. Coming into a firearms section and posting that statement was trolling. Period. Your attempt to paint us as "fer us or agin us" is suspect as well. I'll assume that going into the knife forum and saying you're uncomfortable with all these knives and wishing the site would be anti knife would be met with less than friendly responses. I'm not a psychiatrist, and not able to help someone with an unfounded fear of inanimate objects. I stand by my reasonable comment of, if firearms talk gives you anxiety and makes you uncomfortable, go elsewhere. I'm not about to shrink away and abandon my choices because someone is faint. 


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#35 Matt

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 07:11 PM

Thing is, I'm not interested in a debate about firearms. I just did not think it was fair the way an open question about the nature of the website as  whole was turned into 'you're either with us or against us and if it's the latter, this is our section of the forum so get lost'. 

 

So... you're offended that we defended an important aspect of our EDCs in response to a comment which implied that everydaycarry.com should disallow firearms in posts?

 

Nothing in our responses was explicitly nor implicitly saying "'you're either with us or against us and if it's the latter, this is our section of the forum so get lost'". I've done everything I could in my responses to disabuse anyone reading of that sentiment. There is nothing at all wrong with our expectation that those who post in this part of the forum do so in a respectful and open-minded way.


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#36 Ben

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 08:34 AM

I can provide quotes to prove my statement if required.  At no point whatsoever was he allowed to express a different opinion to either of you. He was invited to go away or be persuaded to change his opinion. To have expressed his opinion in an open 'non pro gun specific' thread was verboten and named trolling.

 

I see that it is being hinted that I am trolling too for not following the party line. 

 

To repeat my position, regardless of any personal opinions on the subject (I'm ex army and police in a country where anyone with a license can open carry everywhere) - The guy should have been allowed his politely expressed opinion in an open thread about the forums gun stance without being attacked for having posted it or claims of trolling. 



#37 coldwater

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:09 AM

I can provide quotes to prove my statement if required.  At no point whatsoever was he allowed to express a different opinion to either of you. He was invited to go away or be persuaded to change his opinion. To have expressed his opinion in an open 'non pro gun specific' thread was verboten and named trolling.

 

I see that it is being hinted that I am trolling too for not following the party line. 

 

To repeat my position, regardless of any personal opinions on the subject (I'm ex army and police in a country where anyone with a license can open carry everywhere) - The guy should have been allowed his politely expressed opinion in an open thread about the forums gun stance without being attacked for having posted it or claims of trolling. 

That post pretty much unmasked you. Problems with belligerent haters is, no matter ho much you try to sugar coat the comment, it's still bitter.



#38 Matt

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 02:27 PM

I can provide quotes to prove my statement if required.  At no point whatsoever was he allowed to express a different opinion to either of you. He was invited to go away or be persuaded to change his opinion. To have expressed his opinion in an open 'non pro gun specific' thread was verboten and named trolling.

 

I see that it is being hinted that I am trolling too for not following the party line. 

 

To repeat my position, regardless of any personal opinions on the subject (I'm ex army and police in a country where anyone with a license can open carry everywhere) - The guy should have been allowed his politely expressed opinion in an open thread about the forums gun stance without being attacked for having posted it or claims of trolling. 

 

I can't speak for coldwater, but since you included me in your accusation, please do provide quotes from my post(s), in context, to justify it. You've now specifically accused me of attacking Gren. Such an accusation is very offensive.

 

There is reasonable fault to be found in Gren's post, in that there was no justification provided for the expressed desire for the moderators to disallow firearms in EDC posts. To reiterate one of my prior statements: defending an important aspect of my EDC in the face of unjustified opposition to it is perfectly reasonable.

 

I believe my posts to be perfectly respectful of and welcoming to Gren. I encouraged an ongoing conversation with Gren and others who share concerns regarding firearms EDC. The only stipulation I placed on said conversation is that those who engage in it do so in a respectful and open-minded way.


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#39 coldwater

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 02:35 PM

I can't speak for coldwater, but since you included me in your accusation, please provide quotes from my post(s), in context, to justify it. You've now specifically accused me of attacking Gren. Such an accusation is very offensive.

 

There is reasonable fault to be found in Gren's post, in that there was no justification provided for the expressed desire for the moderators to disallow firearms in EDC posts. To reiterate one of my prior statements, defending an important aspect of my EDC in the face of unjustified opposition to it is perfectly reasonable.

 

I believe my posts to be perfectly respectful of and welcoming to Gren. I even encouraged an ongoing conversation with Gren and others who share concerns regarding firearms EDC. The only stipulation I placed on said conversation is that those who engage in it do so in a respectful and open-minded way.

I'm in no way as pleasant or gentle as you in your replies, Matt, but I didn't think my reply to the OP was any more aggressive than the post he put up. I aint no spring chicken and have become somewhat short of patience when someone challenges my personal, legal and safety conscience choices in life. I'll discuss it briefly which leads to two places. Respectful disagreement, or go to hell. I'm currently at the go to hell state. I applaud your patience, sir.


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#40 Ben

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:21 AM

Matt, on 01 Jun 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:snapback.png

 

Becoming familiar with the ideas and things that make us uncomfortable or offended is the single best way to improve ourselves as human beings. If after making the effort, as I have suggested, you still feel the same or your aversion grows, then please feel free to ignore posts and discussions on this site that are related to firearms, as coldwater suggested.

 

 

 

coldwater, on 01 Jun 2017 - 1:06 PM, said:snapback.png

Actually, you are not welcome  When you come in making such a statement you're clearly close minded, have no interest in reasonable conversation, and your first post on this site was a straight line to the firearms topic where you immediately trolled members. We have seen this behavior before, possibly from you under another name.

 

 

Matt, on 02 Jun 2017 - 02:13 AM, said:snapback.png

If their reason for coming to this part of the forum is to troll and stir up trouble, no, they're not welcome.

 

If they are not actually interested in learning about us, our reasons, and our firearms, I presume they wouldn't come here in the first place.

 

 

 

coldwater, on 27 Jun 2017 - 8:26 PM, said:snapback.png

 The topic is ours. When you come in, be an enthusiast, or enter with an open mind and willing to understand our mentality. 

 

 

coldwater, on 30 Jun 2017 - 01:27 AM, said:snapback.png

 Coming into a firearms section and posting that statement was trolling. Period. 

 

I rest my case. 'If you don't agree with us then get lost'.

 

 

coldwater, on 02 Jul 2017 - 7:09 PM, said:snapback.png

That post pretty much unmasked you. Problems with belligerent haters is, no matter ho much you try to sugar coat the comment, it's still bitter.

 

You still have no idea about my opinions though I knew that was coming. If the anti gun movement in the US wins this battle it will not be because they are correct or have a better position but because of the aggressive belligerence of the proponents rather than reasoned arguments. I believe the movement deserves more intelligence than the chest beating and anger that the rest of the world sees. Can you get it through your anger that I am not anti gun but very much anti the fight being lost stupidly? Being lost when it could have been won? Being lost due to the majorities revulsion for your kind of bar room brawler attitude? 

 

 

I'm in no way as pleasant or gentle as you in your replies, Matt, but I didn't think my reply to the OP was any more aggressive than the post he put up. I aint no spring chicken and have become somewhat short of patience when someone challenges my personal, legal and safety conscience choices in life. I'll discuss it briefly which leads to two places. Respectful disagreement, or go to hell. I'm currently at the go to hell state. I applaud your patience, sir.

 
Case in point.  






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